Alex Vindman Survived Trump’s Retaliation Machine. Now He’s Running for Senate

It feels very difficult to contemplate how you claw back some of the power that ICE has been bestowed, right?

Actually, I don't think it's that hard.

You think it's easy? Defund them?

No, I don't think it's defunding them. I think it's the fact that the signals from this administration have been signals of impunity, signals that have driven escalation instead of de-escalation, broader powers than what has existed for ICE over the course of multiple administrations, Democratic and Republican, that were there for Immigration and Customs Enforcement. That is a very narrow set of tasks, and they've been given a much broader mandate.

How would you like to see that agency operate?

I think structural reforms that make sure that the folks are getting proper training. I think the ICE agents that have been there over the course of longer careers are probably disgusted.

Oh, we've reported on some of them. They absolutely are.

They're disgusted with the fact that there are untrained, unqualified ICE agents being brought into the force.

Folks with poor records, folks that don’t have the proper temperament to be able to handle themselves with regards to populations. I think about my time in the military, and when we were in Iraq, we were operating amongst the civilian population with the intent of winning hearts and minds.

Our folks were properly trained to de-escalate, to limit the use of force, not going in there to crack some skulls the way we see some of this happening. Not there with face masks on to protect identity so that they could engage in abuses. So, it's masks off, it's proper training, it's making sure that they're de-escalating in confrontations. That is the bare minimum.

But we should also be clear that I think both parties have utterly failed with regards to immigration reform and frankly border security. It is the sovereign responsibility of a state to control its borders, to understand who's coming in, who's coming out, the flows of populations to protect.

It's a national security function, so we could have done better on this function across multiple different administrations. We've utterly abrogated our responsibility for immigration and left millions of people in an untenable situation, [like] DACA kids that came here with, and end up having, a legal status that's then being kind of pulled out from under them.

I'm willing to tackle some of these issues that have been too hard, because it's simply the right thing to do.

What does meaningful, functional, strategic border control look like to you given, in your view, so many administrations have failed to get this right? What does it look like to get it right?

I think part of the solution is simply technological. That would allow us to be able to do just the basic nuts and bolts of monitoring. I think we are missing the boat if we think just in the context of literally the border itself. The driver behind these issues is deep insecurity in different parts of Latin America and Central America. Unless we're figuring out some ways to attack the problems with regard to narco trafficking, instead of cutting programs for US aid, figuring out how to do more to prohibit narco trafficking, understanding that there's also an economic component that these are migrant workers that are here for temporary periods of time, intent to go back home to support their families doing jobs that Americans won't do.